Mon 4 Dec 2006
UFGC #1: Suze Orman vs. Doug Andrew - Paying off your mortgage early
Posted by Steve under Money, Financial Wisdom, UFGC
This is a new feature on Adventure Money, pitting the top financial gurus of the day in a battle of financial ideologies. Yes, it’s the Ultimate Financial Guru Championship. Here’s how it works. First, we find and introduce two gurus with two opposing viewpoints. Then, being as fair as possible we analyze the merits of each argument. Finally, assuming there isn’t a knockout and the fight goes the distance, we declare a winner.
One thing that is worth clarifying. The debate is about the issue at hand and has nothing to do with any other positions each respective guru might hold.
The inaugural UFGC pits Suze “The Animal” Orman up against Doug “Missed Fortune” Andrew. Now, let’s meet our fighters:

Suze Orman (from her website):
Achieving and maintaining financial security ranks as one of peoples’ major sources of anxiety today. Few understand this better than Suze Orman, an internationally acclaimed personal finance expert whom USA TODAY called a “one-woman financial advice powerhouse” and “a force in the world of personal finance.” From her earliest childhood years and the stress of her father losing his business, to her post-college job working as a waitress, to climbing the ranks in the investment world, to becoming a bestselling author, Suze has lived and learned many hard financial lessons. She has been able to translate these experiences into frank, savvy financial advice that has transformed the lives of millions around the world.
A two-time Emmy Award-winning television host, New York Times bestselling author, magazine and online columnist, writer/producer, and motivational speaker, Suze is undeniably America’s most recognized expert on personal finance. Suze is on a mission to change the way people feel, think, and act about their money.
Doug Andrew (from his website):
Douglas R. Andrew is the founder of the Missed Fortune movement, a national revolution in financial planning launched by his best-selling books, Missed Fortune: Dispel the Money Myth-Conceptions—Isn’t It Time You Became Wealthy? and Missed Fortune 101 (both published by Warner Business Books).
With experience in business management, economics, accounting, financial and estate planning, and advanced business and tax planning, Mr. Andrew is a sought-after national speaker and financial planning expert. He is currently the owner and president of Paramount Financial Services, Inc., a comprehensive personal and business financial planning firm with several divisions.
Partnering with financial services providers nationwide, Mr. Andrew’s primary mission is to help people experience their own “Missed Fortune True Wealth Transformation”—maximizing human, intellectual, civic and financial assets for a fulfilling life, now and during retirement. To that end, he is also a national advisory board member of Empowered Wealth LC, a company dedicated to optimizing the full spectrum of assets.
Okay, now that we know a little about these two, LET’S GET IT ON!
The issue for debate: PAYING OFF YOUR MORTGAGE EARLY
Orman says: Pay if off early!
From an article titled Five More Money Mistakes to Avoid:
2. Not paying off the mortgage early.
Men tend to hate this idea. They love leverage, especially when it comes with a nice tax break from Uncle Sam. At the same time, most women will tell you the one security blanket that would make them feel safest is knowing they would always have a home to live in.
An alarming 46 percent of women respondents to a recent survey sponsored by Allianz Life Insurance Company of North America said that the prospect of becoming a “bag lady” weighs heavily on them. Women view their home as shelter; men view it as a tax shelter. So who’s right?
Well, if you’re living in a home you intend to stay in and are at least 50, I think paying off the mortgage early is one of the smartest moves you can make. For security, plain and simple.
Yes, you give up the tax break of being able to deduct the mortgage interest, but you also give up the responsibility of making a monthly mortgage payment. That’s a huge weight off your financial shoulders in retirement.
My advice if you are 50 or over is to scale back on your 401(k) contributions so you invest just enough to get your company match. Then use the extra money that will show up in your paycheck — yes, even after the fact that it’s taxed — to accelerate your mortgage payments.
Will you end up with less in your 401(k)? Of course, but you’ll need a lot less because you won’t be stuck paying your mortgage once you retire.
Andrew says: Keep that mortgage!
A chapter excerpt from his book Missed Fortune 101:
THE TRUE COST OF EXTRA PRINCIPAL PAYMENTS
Another common misconception about the path to financial independence is that the best way to pay off a house is to make extra principal payments on your mortgage. There are various methods that people use to do this. Some homeowners use the biweekly payment plan to accelerate their mortgage payoff. Others use fifteen-year mortgages rather than thirty-year mortgages to accomplish their goal of outright home ownership. I will prove in this book that no method of paying extra principal on your mortgage is the wisest or quickest method of accomplishing financial independence.
A homeowner can accumulate the amount of cash needed to pay off a home just as soon or sooner by using a conservative, tax-deferred mortgage acceleration plan. The most important elements of home equity management are maintaining liquidity and safety of principal and creating the opportunity for home equity to grow in a separate side fund, where it is accessible in the event of an emergency.
It is essential to maintain control of your home equity to allow it to earn a rate of return. Home equity has no rate of return when it is trapped in the house, as I will explain. I’ll also explain why your home may likely sell much more quickly and for a higher price with a high mortgage balance rather than a low mortgage balance.
Learning to manage the equity in your home wisely will allow you to utilize one of the few tax deductions that we Americans have left: our mortgage interest. You can actually pay off a home using a thirty-year mortgage in thirteen and a half years with the same cash outlay required to pay off a fifteen-year mortgage. And you can accomplish this by using some of Uncle Sam’s money instead of your own! This book will teach you how to dramatically enhance your net worth and generate an extra million dollars or more by safely using lazy, idle dollars that are trapped in the equity of your home.
Let me reiterate and clarify why many Americans are remiss in arriving at the degree of financial independence they could otherwise obtain. While we do everything in our power to get tax deductions on our retirement contributions and investments, we simultaneously eliminate one of the few and best deductions we have: our home mortgage interest.
Hence, most Americans prepare for the future by postponing tax while getting rid of their tax deductions.
Analysis
I think how one views this debate is going to largely depend upon where one finds themselves on their financial journey. Many people seem to have a strong aversion to debt, though perhaps justified. Learning to manage debt is not a trivial matter and not always easy. For many people, the best course of action is to avoid debt whenever possible. However, there are also those who wish to take a bit more aggressive attitude toward their finances and want to explore the opportunities granted by debt.
From a purely financial perspective, debt is beneficial to carry if the borrowed funds can earn a higher return elsewhere. It’s a bit more complicated than that—risk adjusted returns should be considered—but that’s a good place to start. Essentially that’s how banks make their money. They borrow money from you at a low rate and then they lend it out to your neighbor at a higher rate. It’s a very simple and age old business strategy, but many of us don’t think it’s something we should be doing. Why not?
Consider today’s mortgage rates in the 5.6% range. It’s not unreasonable to think you can earn a higher return with a portfolio of index funds. And that’s without taking into account the fact that mortgage interest is tax deductible. If you are in, say, the 28% tax bracket, your effective mortgage interest rate is actually closer 4%. Certainly, one can expect to earn higher returns elsewhere. So does it ever make sense to pay off your mortgage early?
Well, maybe. That 4% effective mortgage rate may be a low return on your investment, which is essentially what you’re getting by paying off your mortgage early, but it is risk free. Further, perhaps the spread between what you’re “earning” by paying off your mortgage and what you can earn elsewhere is worth less to you than the feeling of freedom you get from not having a mortgage. I’ll be honest, it’s not to me, but it might be for you. That’s basically what it boils down to.
Only you can decide what is appropriate for you when it comes to paying off your mortgage early. If you have an appetite for some risk and want to maximize your returns, you’re probably going to want to keep that mortgage for as long as you can and invest your money elsewhere. If you’re more concerned with being out of debt, go ahead and pay it off early.
So, where does that leave us in our battle?
Well, after a long, hard tough fight by our two UFGC warriors…

…I’m going to have to declare this one a draw.
24 Responses to “ UFGC #1: Suze Orman vs. Doug Andrew - Paying off your mortgage early ”
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December 4th, 2006 at 5:46 pm[…] Adventure Money has put together a great article comparing the differing advice of two financial gurus. It is a great idea for a blog series. […]
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December 10th, 2006 at 12:10 pm[…] Steve presents UFGC #1: Suze Orman vs. Doug Andrew - Paying off your mortgage early posted at Adventure Money, saying, “Two financial gurus square off in a battle of financial ideologies. Suze Orman and Douglas Andrew debate paying off your mortgage early.” […]

December 4th, 2006 at 9:19 am
LOL! Lovin these creations of yours!
Personally I think the answer is both. Keeping your mortgage while you invest your way to financial freedom, and then once you are financially free, begin paying down your mortgages systematically. That’s sort of my plan anyway. I’d rather use the leverage to get ahead more quickly, and then stabilize what I have.
December 4th, 2006 at 10:46 am
prlinkbiz,
According to Orman, you’re supposed to worried about being a “bag lady.” You’re not helping with the stereotypes here.
December 14th, 2006 at 11:37 am
It sounds to me like Doug Andrew is also for paying off your mortgage early when he says “You can actually pay off a home using a thirty-year mortgage in thirteen and a half years with the same cash outlay required to pay off a fifteen-year mortgage.” He just thinks that you should invest the extra money elsewhere, presumably until you have enough to pay off the entire mortgage early.
This statement struck me: “The most important elements of home equity management are maintaining liquidity and safety of principal and creating the opportunity for home equity to grow in a separate side fund, where it is accessible in the event of an emergency.” This reminds me that if you are investing your extra mortgage money elsewhere until you have enough to pay off the mortgage in full, you can access it more easily (cheaply) in case of emergency than if it has been paid to a mortgage company and you have to sell the house, get a home equity line of credit, or refinance your house to get the money out again.
Making it harder to take your money back is good for some people who can’t trust themselves with easily accessible money but do have the guts to admit and realize this about themselves. But for people who hate debt and want to eliminate it as quickly as possible, it sounds like Doug Andrew thinks he can get you there more quickly.
January 3rd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
haha- what a great post. I’ve gotta bookmark this blog. Down with Orman! I don’t like her. Something about her telling people to dissolve their marriage on live television isn’t right. Is Orman a shrink or a financial advisor? Yes, there is overlap, but I’ll take Doug on this debate. His advice is thought provoking and uniue.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:10 am
Mr. Andrew is right on!!! This is a very old strategy of Arbitrage. The total housing debt of the nation’s richest 1% (from 1998 to 2004 total 342 billion)these households are made up of people who have more than enough money to payoff their mortgages but refuse to do so. Why? They have decided not to be house rich and cash poor, but cash rich and safely leveraged!
(source Wall Street Journal and Federal Reserve)Jan. 19, 2007 page W2
February 1st, 2007 at 11:30 am
You are missing a key point in Doug Andrews book MF 101. Your mortgage is calculated using simple interest, where as money growing in a conservative side fund compounds. Simple interest on a $100,000 mortgage @ 6% equals a payment of $6,000 per year interest only. If you invest that same $100,000 (pulled out using a mortgage)at 6% compounding it will pay you $6,000 the first year and $6,360 the next year and it will continue to grow more each year. At year 10 you would have paid $60,000 in interest expense on your mortgage to make $80,000. That does’t include the tax break on the mortgage. If you get 33% of your money back from Uncle Sam on your tax return, then on your $60,000 you would have really spent $40,000 to make $80,000.
Simple interest vs. compound interest is the key.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:46 am
Doug, Is right on target! “La Suze” is for people that can not control themselves. Arbitrage happens everyday-just look what your bank is giving you for interest and charging on Home Equities! Be your own bank!!
February 1st, 2007 at 11:49 am
Griff,
A good point and one I should have mentioned. Nonetheless, I don’t think it impacts my “draw” declaration.
The average consumer may not have the sophistication nor the discipline to take advantage of the arbitrage opportunity. But for those that do, they shouldn’t be discouraged from doing so.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
The safety part, which is often overlooked or never commented on is just as important as the compounding and liquidity. For the homeowner, every payment that they make to the bank makes themselves more at risk and the bank less at risk, why, because the more equity that is being built (the difference between the home value and the loans against it) makes the bank more safe, especially in the event of a foreclosure. That’s why the best terms on a mortgage come at an 80% loan to value ratio or lower. Doug Andrew’s method provides more safety along the way because his system allows you to pay off the mortgage in one payment, at which time you may not want to payoff the mortgage if your side fund continues to outperform the effective cost of the mortgage. Suze along with the Dave Ramsey’s of the world continue to put more and more americans at risk to the bank in the event of a job loss or major medical problems, they’ve paid down the mortgage balance and up until the last payment has been made, the bank can foreclose and reap the profits. Doug isn’t recommending not paying off the mortgage but do it in a smarter, safer way, I don’t think he has many bag lady’s as clients.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:42 pm
People who follow Suze Orman’s advice may find themselves mortgage free at retirement, but most will suffer financially because while they sent every extra dollar to the mortgage company to pay off the mortgage sooner, they didn’t put enough money aside to afford the income taxes due on the 401(k) withdrawals, let alone the ongoing property taxes and ever increasing cost of homeowners insurance. Not to mention that income taxes have nowhere to go but up. The Government has an enormous debt coming due in the form of Social Security and Medicare with all of the baby boomers looking to retire in the coming years and just where do you think that money will come from? Higher taxes. Just when the retirees needed their tax deduction the most Suze Orman took it away. I wonder where she’ll be when the people following her advice come looking for her to save them again. Paying off your home is playing not to lose. Nobody has ever been successful playing not to lose. The only reliable strategy is playing to win and that is accomplished by accumulating assets and allowing compound interest perform its magic. If you believe that you won’t make enough money in the future to afford a mortgage payment, maybe the question you should be asking is what do I need to do today so that I have enough money to afford my mortgage payment. Doug Andrew’s advice empowers people so they can take charge of their future and eliminate the need to be dependent on the Government for their retirement needs. There are a lot of retired people who own a million dollar home free and clear and yet can’t afford to buy a hamburger at McDonalds. Being house rich and cash poor is a bad strategy.
February 1st, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Cash rich sounds good Mr. Perkins!!! No onee has answered the question, is Suze Orman a Financial Planner or is she a Dr. Phil wanna be?
February 1st, 2007 at 4:43 pm
With the US savings rate at a negative, homeowners need to realize that being out of debt does not create wealth. Learning to conserve, not consume in order to practice successful equity management can be done with the partnership of a financial planner. It is interesting that as a Certified Mortgage Planning Specialist, I find clients over 50 have the “paying off debt” mentality and under 50 are more likely to understand the “compounding interest creating wealth”. Usually, when we review the big picture and take in their whole financial picture with a financial planner, they all can see how using the mortgage as a financial planning tool to create a debt strategy by carrying the biggest longest mortgage will create wealth for their family in the long term and short term.
February 1st, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Though Ms. Orman is highly regarded, I disagree with her opinion. Yes, she is very highly regarded as a financial expert. My opinion is that the reason that she is so successful and highly regarded is because 95+% of America is financial uneducated and undisciplined. If you have self-control and financial responsibility, you’ll never be a “bag lady”. These metaphors are meant to scare people into not saving money for emergencies and giving extra principle payment to a mortgage company that, should you get hurt and can’t work, will take your house just as quickly or quicker then if you were not making extra payments. Bottomline…If you are not irresponsible, you will end up in a better position by keeping your mortgage and saving the difference. GO DOUG!!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:37 am
Speaking from personal experience, I’d strongly disagree with Suze Orman…as I think she’s just a self-promoting “sales person”. She’s “selling herself” to personal wealth. In reading both their books, I think Doug Andrew “cares about making people wealthy”. I put myself through school and when I graduated (at 24) I was saddled with 25k in debt. By the time I was 35 I was a Millionaire. By the time I was 42 I was a multi-millionaire. If I follwed Suze’s advice, I’d most likely still be in debt! I’m 46 years old, live in a 3.5M home in Southern Calif. and have accumilated a high net worth by following Doug Andrews financial advice (although I learned it on my own and did not read his books until recently). So, his wisdom works…I’m living proof. From a Welfare Child….to a Wonderful Life! Best To You!
April 27th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
I have read both Orman’s and Andrew’s books (among others). I personally can attest that Doug’s approach worked for me.
After seeing my own net worth increase (after years of unsuccesfully trying to safe for retirement and eliminate the mortgage), I was compelled to become a T.E.A.M. member of Doug’s fine organization.
Not only have I been able to put aside money for retirement, and protect my families’ assets from other unforseen events; I have also been able provide a quality of life for my family without worshiping money.
Doug, thank you for empowering me with the knowledge of how to provide for my wife, my family, my church and my community.
P.S. The Chicago Federal Reserve Bank agrees with Mr. Andrew.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Personally, I have read and studied the “Missed Fortune” Doug Andrew concepts and know they are very financially sound. I’m not familiar with Suze, but if her advice is contradicting Doug’s then it’s obvious she’s totally off base and her main market must be the financial jellyfish of the country.
June 11th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Doug’s latest book comes out tomorrow (June 12)- Last Chance Millionaire, check it out - here is a link to a early review.
http://books.monstersandcritics.com/nonfiction/reviews/article_1312945.php/Book_Review_The_Last_Chance_Millionaire
August 9th, 2007 at 5:57 am
Douglas Andrew isn’t against paying off your mortgage…. he is just against it during your prime earning years when you should be planning for a rich retirement.
Most people forget that you can finance a car.. you can finance a college education…
you can finance furniture…
and you can finance a house…
but if you think you can finance your retirement, you’re sorely mistaken.
Most people fail to listen to their own needs for retirement and don’t even factor in Cost of Living increases over 20-30 years! That $75,000 you think you can live on annually at 65 years old may not work for you at 75!
Plus, people get caught in bad cash positions because all of their money is trapped in their homes.
According to Suze… Debt is another spelling for The Devil. The problem is that there are so many people living beyond their means with no turnoff valve. She is trying to rescue people from further descent into the 5th level of Hell. Her thinking and strategies are what people are used to… but also what is hurting our senior citizens who are forced into reverse mortgage products because their lack of debt puts them in bad credit positions and they run out of cash from working so long to sock it all away into their homes.
When you look at a TIL on the Mortgage application, you see these huge ugly numbers that if you pay off your mortgage here’s how much you will have paid…. well… at least Douglas Andrew shows how to use OPM to pay it off
September 15th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Here’s the bottom line. If you take an objective look at both points of view, you will see that Suze’s claims don’t stand up. She makes no reference to current tax codes. She doesn’t bother to really calculate the opportunity cost of leaving your money locked up in your home. She doesn’t run side by side comparisons of where someone would be 20 years from now if they implement Dougs plan vs. hers. Doug Andrew leaves no stone unturned. Suze, you’re a disgrace to those of us that truly are “Real” financial advisors. You are the biggest joke going! If the producers of your show selected their host based on true market and financial knowledge, Suze would be in the bread lines. People believe her crap too. What a country!
September 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 am
When Suze did a commercial for a car company telling people that buying a new car makes good financial sense, she lost all credibility with me. Everyone knows how new cars depreciate and how people end up upside-down. Tony Woods is right, Suze is a joke, where as Doug incorporates actual numbers and explores the complete financial ramifications of each course of action.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:52 am
As a Representative in the financial Services Industry, I find Suzie to be so far off base with her advice that it tends towards the criminal. Unfortunatley people in my own family follow her advice and like an ostrich with it’s head stuck in the ground refuse to look at the other side.It’s frightening to wonder how many people will be in bad shape when they retire after following her advice.It always makes sense to separate your equity from your home and place it in a coservative safe guaranteed side fund to allow for much greater growth and liquidity. If you have a home valued at $100,000, why not take 80%, or $80,000 out of the equity and place in a side fund that can achieve much greater return for you. Now you have $100,000 home and $80,000 side fund.duhhh!You will eventually have enough to pay off the mortgage and manage your own equity for your future.
Don’t be a financial jelly fish.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:35 am
please, enlarge the print, I cann’t read any of the comments.